Re: Eclipse 3.3.1 .... and stuff

From: Jerry W. Walker (jerrywwalke..mail.com)
Date: Thu Oct 04 2007 - 14:48:17 EDT

  • Next message: Kieran Kelleher: "Re: Eclipse 3.3.1 .... and stuff"

    Hi, Mike,

    Yes, I'm very familiar with the problem of visualization via static
    analysis. I also went a few days down the path of designing a
    replacement for WOBuilder early last year. I retained my notes until
    I found Xyle Scope early this year. After I made the pitch to them
    about taking on such a project, I tossed my notes. At least I
    convinced them to put some diagrams in their documentation.

    It's too big a job for me without something coming back to put dinner
    on the table (and keep my kids in college!).

    My thoughts keep lightly returning to Interface Builder and its
    approach to page layout by archiving the objects. You referenced a
    similar approach in your earlier email.

    In any case, I just thought I'd throw Xyle Scope in as a source of
    ideas if you hadn't heard about it. I'm particularly fond of their
    HTML view pane which can be reformatted by substituting another style
    sheet for it.

    Regards,
    Jerry

    On Oct 4, 2007, at 9:40 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:

    > Hey Jerry ... Yeah, I actually use Xyle as well, and it's a cool
    > app. The major difference is that we often don't end up with an
    > actual valid page (in HTML terms) via static analysis alone. To
    > clarify, when I say "static analysis," I mean that we don't have a
    > runtime, so we have to try to construct a page purely from looking
    > at your bindings and structure outside of the context of real
    > data. Straight visualization of an HTML + CSS editor is relatively
    > "easy" (which is not to say it's ACTUALLY easy, just easy because
    > there are several existing apps that do it), but when you throw in
    > conditionals and repetitions, things get nasty really fast. A good
    > example is that <tr> example I mentioned earlier ... I'm definitely
    > trying to steal concepts from whomever I can, though :)
    >
    > ms
    >
    > On Oct 4, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Jerry W. Walker wrote:
    >
    >> Hi, Mike,
    >>
    >> On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:19 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:
    >>
    >>>> - some sort of box around the block elements, and the ability to
    >>>> click on them to select them (yes, just like WO builder) so you
    >>>> can scroll to the end of that one and see what's next
    >>> I've tried out a bunch of various visualizations ...
    >>
    >> Have you ever used Xyle Scope? I've found it incredibly helpful in
    >> parsing HTML/CSS pages for modification and refinement.
    >>
    >> http://www.culturedcode.com/xyle/
    >>
    >> I guess the best way to describe it is as a CSS viewer. Here's a
    >> graphic from their web site that shows what it does:
    >>
    >> <Screenshot_en.jpg>
    >>
    >> You might take a look at the demo for ideas, if you're interested,
    >> to see various ways that they show the source, the cascade and the
    >> layout.
    >>
    >> I emailed their CEO a while back to see if they might be
    >> interested in modifying/customizing their product into a WOBuilder
    >> like tool, but it was hard to make any business case for their
    >> doing so and they had new projects already planned.
    >>
    >> Sorry I haven't taken the opportunity more often to say what an
    >> awesome job I think you and the rest of the Wonder team are doing
    >> for the community but I've been under some intense production
    >> pressures recently.

    --
    __ Jerry W. Walker,
        WebObjects Developer/Instructor for High Performance Industrial  
    Strength Internet Enabled Systems
    

    jerrywwalke..mail.com 203 278-4085 office



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