I dunno, but it might be less work to build a few features into the
Outline view to make it even more useful as a component navigation
tool. It gives a nice "outline" of the component structure which is
really all one needs for the very reasons Mike stated about CSS layout.
Perhaps the Outline can be enhanced with less effort to give even
more visualization of the component structure.
On Oct 4, 2007, at 2:48 PM, Jerry W. Walker wrote:
> Hi, Mike,
>
> Yes, I'm very familiar with the problem of visualization via static
> analysis. I also went a few days down the path of designing a
> replacement for WOBuilder early last year. I retained my notes
> until I found Xyle Scope early this year. After I made the pitch to
> them about taking on such a project, I tossed my notes. At least I
> convinced them to put some diagrams in their documentation.
>
> It's too big a job for me without something coming back to put
> dinner on the table (and keep my kids in college!).
>
> My thoughts keep lightly returning to Interface Builder and its
> approach to page layout by archiving the objects. You referenced a
> similar approach in your earlier email.
>
> In any case, I just thought I'd throw Xyle Scope in as a source of
> ideas if you hadn't heard about it. I'm particularly fond of their
> HTML view pane which can be reformatted by substituting another
> style sheet for it.
>
> Regards,
> Jerry
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2007, at 9:40 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:
>
>> Hey Jerry ... Yeah, I actually use Xyle as well, and it's a cool
>> app. The major difference is that we often don't end up with an
>> actual valid page (in HTML terms) via static analysis alone. To
>> clarify, when I say "static analysis," I mean that we don't have a
>> runtime, so we have to try to construct a page purely from looking
>> at your bindings and structure outside of the context of real
>> data. Straight visualization of an HTML + CSS editor is
>> relatively "easy" (which is not to say it's ACTUALLY easy, just
>> easy because there are several existing apps that do it), but when
>> you throw in conditionals and repetitions, things get nasty really
>> fast. A good example is that <tr> example I mentioned earlier ...
>> I'm definitely trying to steal concepts from whomever I can,
>> though :)
>>
>> ms
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Jerry W. Walker wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Mike,
>>>
>>> On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:19 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:
>>>
>>>>> - some sort of box around the block elements, and the ability
>>>>> to click on them to select them (yes, just like WO builder) so
>>>>> you can scroll to the end of that one and see what's next
>>>> I've tried out a bunch of various visualizations ...
>>>
>>> Have you ever used Xyle Scope? I've found it incredibly helpful
>>> in parsing HTML/CSS pages for modification and refinement.
>>>
>>> http://www.culturedcode.com/xyle/
>>>
>>> I guess the best way to describe it is as a CSS viewer. Here's a
>>> graphic from their web site that shows what it does:
>>>
>>> <Screenshot_en.jpg>
>>>
>>> You might take a look at the demo for ideas, if you're
>>> interested, to see various ways that they show the source, the
>>> cascade and the layout.
>>>
>>> I emailed their CEO a while back to see if they might be
>>> interested in modifying/customizing their product into a
>>> WOBuilder like tool, but it was hard to make any business case
>>> for their doing so and they had new projects already planned.
>>>
>>> Sorry I haven't taken the opportunity more often to say what an
>>> awesome job I think you and the rest of the Wonder team are doing
>>> for the community but I've been under some intense production
>>> pressures recently.
>
>
>
>
> --
> __ Jerry W. Walker,
> WebObjects Developer/Instructor for High Performance Industrial
> Strength Internet Enabled Systems
>
> jerrywwalke..mail.com
> 203 278-4085 office
>
>
>
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