Re: maclike vs eclipselike

From: Mike Schrag (mschra..dimension.com)
Date: Sat Oct 03 2009 - 02:19:08 EDT

  • Next message: Ray Kiddy: "Re: maclike vs eclipselike"

    I see two goals for WOLips -- one is to continue to build out features
    to support WebObjects development, the other is to work towards
    providing a development experience that people expect out of a Mac
    app ... This change clearly doesn't add new features, and isn't
    intended to support any future features. This is purely an aesthetic
    change. The eclipse approach as a single window interface is very
    unmaclike. That we open Entity Modeler in a new window by default is
    much more macish and really not eclipseish -- you can tell by how much
    work we have to do to make that behave mostly as you expect. If you
    look at really any Apple app, what we show as a Properties view would
    be an Inspector window. Open Interface Builder and it would behave the
    same way -- always-on-top of Entity Modeler, and it wouldn't be any
    change to the way you manage focus at all. The main difference is that
    you CAN close it, and reduce clutter. Eclipse LOVES clutter -- it's
    like their mission statement to provide as much crap in one UI as they
    possibly can -- actions, menus, buttons, views, coolbars, toolbars,
    view menus. It's ridiculous. If you use Xcode for development, you'll
    find that you don't run it full screen -- you have a lot more
    individual windows vs Eclipse's one huge window. It would also be a
    better use of space because currently we use Eclipse's tabbed
    preferences panel, which those tabs on the left side, which is a big
    waste of space and look ugly as hell.

    Anyway ... I'm not sold on this, but Eclipse UI is the suck, so I'm
    always looking a ways we can make it suck less.

    ms

    On Oct 2, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Lachlan Deck wrote:

    > On 03/10/2009, at 6:09 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:
    >
    >> It would work like inspectors on normal Mac apps -- it would just
    >> be "Inspector Window" ... you wouldn't close and reopen for each
    >> one, it would change with selection (like old EOModeler).
    >>
    >> Technically you can tear off the current view, but the layout is
    >> undesirable for an inspector panel. This kind of goes back to the
    >> main question of whether we're an Eclipse app or a Mac app. If
    >> we're a Mac app, I think there's no question that this should be a
    >> separator inspector window -- You really don't see embedded
    >> inspector views very often on the Mac.
    >>
    >> I'm undecided on it at the moment. Just something I'm tossing around.
    >
    > Can you talk a little more about what advantages you see with the
    > approach? i.e., why bother--when it currently works--unless there's
    > some new feature that you've got awaiting screen space?
    >
    > The problem with the inspector (as in the screen shot) is that it
    > has to float somewhere on the screen, it has to remain on top of
    > things as otherwise you keep having to bring it to the fore to use
    > it etc
    >
    > The eclipse window is typically full-screen also .. so where would
    > it float without being in the way?
    >
    > I think I'd have to use it to make a call. But like David I wonder
    > how this would work (focus-wise) with stepping through and adjusting
    > multiple attributes/relations.
    >
    > with regards,
    > --
    >
    > Lachlan Deck
    >
    >
    >



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