> And if you make a simple Google search you will find a lot of people
> that agree window management is not one of the most exciting
> features of Xcode.
I'm not suggesting we adopt the window management of Xcode -- I think
it's pretty terrible, but the general Mac approach of keeping things
clean and simple is a good ideal.
> Changing the way Entity Modeler Properties window behave will not
> change the way we use Eclipse (full screen, with a lot of views,
> menus and toolbars).
I think it might ... Maybe not specifically properties, but moving
towards a more-windows-and-not-all-full-screen approach encourages new
workflows. If you were using the normal Eclipse workflow (i.e. not
using the "open in new window" setting for entity modeler), you would
almost never drag and drop, because you have to do a perspective
switch to do it. The Mac approach encourages multiple active
perspectives in a single environment, which allows for things like
dragging an entity from EOModeler and dropping it on WOBuilder to
create a display group. The eclipse way requires clunkier, less-user-
friendly workflows as an artifact of its crappy ui design.
>> It would also be a better use of space because currently we use
>> Eclipse's tabbed preferences panel, which those tabs on the left
>> side, which is a big waste of space and look ugly as hell.
>
> Looking at the screenshot you posted, I can't see any clear
> advantage. The space occupied by the old Properties view is now empty.
I think this is precisely the advantage ... There's now empty space.
If you're following the recommended style of developing models, using
prototypes, you should actually very rarely need to interact with the
properties view, yet it's always there, taking a performance penalty
for updating the editor panes (making selection feel sluggish), and
looking very complicated. Contrast this with EOModeler. You open it
and there's very little there. Most of the same features exist,
they're just not screaming at you on startup. EOModeler has tons of
terrible UI issues as well, but I like that they tried for simplicity.
> The new floating Properties view is hiding information about
> properties and relationships.
This is as much the way I setup this screenshot. By killing the left
side tabs, the inspector view would actually be probably 20% skinnier,
and for many people, might very rarely even be used.
> It can make sense if you plan to produce an Entity Modeler solo
> application for Mac. But it doesn't fit well the Eclipse platform
> context.
There is actually an Entity Modeler.app Eclipse RCP app for the Mac
that shares plugins with WOLips, and I've been considering focusing
more on the development of that as a separate app, taking things more
towards the multiple-app style that Apple originally used.
>> Anyway ... I'm not sold on this, but Eclipse UI is the suck, so I'm
>> always looking a ways we can make it suck less.
> Eclipse "abstract" UI is an old and known problem. But, being
> honest, Xcode window management is far from good too. Designing good
> UI is something really difficult. IMHO, the problem here is related
> with context. Are you creating a tool in the context of Eclipse or
> Mac?
If I'm picking an approach, it's the Mac. Eclipse UI is terrible. The
more you try to fit in with Eclipse, it seems the worse things get.
Eclipse is an amazing platform that allows us to do amazing things,
but I don't get the impression that the Eclipse team really cares
about user interaction and user experience much -- it's just about
shoving more things on the screen at a time. Some of this is that the
Eclipse platform gives you the rope to hang yourself with, and plugin
developers happily use it -- and we have, too -- but I want WOLips to
be a great tool that people enjoy using, not something that is awkward
that they have to fight.
ms
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